This is a rush copy of \"MediaBuzz\" on July 19, 2015.
This copy may not be in final form and may be updated.
Host howard kurtz: This Sunday, Donald Trump hit back at his critics by mocking John McCain\'s status as a war hero and Ariana Huffington\'s divorce
Will the media rebound hurt his candidacy?
President Obama announced a deal with Iran, and experts immediately negotiated nuclear talks. Conservatives condemned the deal and liberals defended it.
Both sides used fierce rhetoric. (
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Eric Bolin from Fox News: I\'m still wondering what we can get.
No one outlined what we got.
What they got, they got the bomb.
They have access to the bomb.
Rachel maddow of MSNBC: if there is no war with Iran.
It also means that Iran does not have a nuclear bomb, which means that the president will become the only diplomatic world --
Enough for us to forget everything about him and end our 50-year career in comics --
Failed and absurd AmericaS.
He did the same with Cuba\'s policy. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Kurtz: Does the polarization of this medium emit more heat than light?
Why did the president go to Major Garrett of CBS because he asked a tough question?
Mike Huckabee is considered a social problem person, work, same-sex marriage, why wouldn\'t he talk about Trump and deal with the media. (
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Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee: no one should be president if they are not willing to answer these questions.
The media should say that we will not report any pretentious candidates who will think they can write a script for their campaign like a Hollywood sitcom. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Kurtz: I sat down with the former governor.
The New York Times found that Bill Cosby, after taking the oath, admitted that he had sex with many women who used drugs in the process and paid for two of them to make them
Does this end the media debate once and for all?
In addition, former NBC and CNN anchor Campbell Brown launched a website to promote education reform and held a forum with presidential candidates next month.
But is it journalism or original propaganda?
This is Howard Kurtz. this is a hot talk in the media.
This weekend, after the Huffington Post announced that Trump was such a sub-show, the main media first attacked Donald Trump, who will no longer be reported on his political part, but have fun with Kardashian.
Trump tweeted a very personal tweet in Ariana Huffington saying she was not attractive and saying I fully understood why her husband left her for a man.
After John McCain said Trump was infuriating the madman, Trump yesterday mocked the senator\'s time as a Vietnamese prisoner of war in a forum. (
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Donald Trump, the Republican presidential candidate: He hit me.
He is not a war hero.
He was a war hero because he was caught.
I like people who are not caught. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Kurtz: Join us now, James Rosen, chief Washington correspondent for Fox News, Matt Lewis, senior contributor to daily callers, and Julie Lewis, Democratic strategist and Fox News contributor ·
James Trump has been thriving in New York in this insulting style, which has caused a lot of headlines.
He\'s a presidential candidate now.
Did the media conclude that Donald just went too far over and over again?
James Rosen, chief Washington correspondent for Fox News: First of all, I don\'t know if Donald Trump is right to comment on other people\'s heroism.
I think the deadliest enemy he has ever had in his life is Rossi O\'Donnell.
I think Donald Trump is now A real candidate, he has filed an application with the Federal Election Commission, and he has made A cover-up of objectivity in the old class. P. style book way.
This is not to say that he should be relegated to the entertainment department as the Huffington Post did.
But you can\'t report Donald Trump as simply as George McGovern, Walter Mendel, or anyone else.
He is a great man.
Just describe him as businessman Donald Trump said x, y, and z on Thursday, or presidential candidate Donald Trump somehow didn\'t treat him justice as a subject.
Kurtz: Okay.
I think we have to pay attention to our words. you know, it\'s too much for journalists to criticize that politician.
In this show called Trump last week, Dana Milbank was called a \"rotten pig,\" which I think is out of scope.
But this is an important trump card--
He believes the Huffington Post is fighting back against such gimmicks.
We will cover him, but we will leave him in the entertainment area and then--
But 15 years ago after Arianna\'s divorce, the highly derogatory tweet, what do you think about it?
Matt Lewis, senior contributor to daily callers: Well, look, I think it\'s part of the media environment where sad Donald Trump is not entirely responsible.
We report politicians like they are celebrities, and almost a lot of political reports are like TMZ.
Should we be surprised that people who speak like this are actually not only getting attention, but also ranked first or second in many early polls?
Do you blame media culture?
Do you think we are supporting this or are Trump taking advantage of the chaotic environment that already exists?
Lewis: of course.
I think it\'s like-
What\'s judge Mike\'s movie--
Eventually became an idiot who fell wrest\'s hand. -
A professional wrestler becomes president.
Sadly, a lot of trends are leading this trend, serious politicians like John Kasich and Bobby Jindal ---
It may not even be possible to enter the debate. KURTZ: Right.
Other Republican candidates are now condemning whether Donald Trump is important, and the Republican National Committee has issued a statement saying that McCain is an American hero and that there is no place in our party or country to make comments that belittle those who serve in honor.
If you want to know the reaction of the media, here\'s the cover of The New York Post, cheers Trump, Don Warwick.
Julie rokinsky, Fox News writer: Well, you know Matt\'s point of view, don\'t hate players, hate games, right?
I mean, he\'s completely under media control.
The media don\'t need to cover him up with this madness.
But this is a mutually beneficial relationship.
As we saw just now, he sells newspapers.
They helped his brand.
So in a way, would you blame Donald Trump for doing what he\'s doing?
No, he\'s a performer.
He\'s not really a legitimate candidate, but he\'s number one and number two and we have to cover him up.
Yes. is he a performer?
Would you like to say that he is ridiculous, even a side play, which I think is a fair comment.
But you just said he\'s not a legitimate candidate.
Why does the media insist on doing so? -
Not just Huffington Post, why do the media say we don\'t take him seriously?
So what if he seems to have touched the nerves of many Republican voters?
Lewis: Well, I think the problem is that when you say something like this, it\'s going to be considered elitist.
Kurtz: because it is.
Lewis: grassroots Conservatives say the game was rigged.
Finally, someone came and he was saying, tell us like this, say like this, and accept the media.
Kurtz: but it doesn\'t seem like you\'re going to criticize Donald Trump\'s comments on McCain by talking about a bigger media culture.
Lewis: I \'d be more than happy to criticize McCain for his comments.
I think they\'re terrible.
I think you know. -
As my colleague Jamie Weinstein pointed out at Twitter and others, McCain is not a hero because he is imprisoned.
He is a hero because he refuses to release early because it will be a propaganda victory for North Vietnam.
So I think what Donald Trump is saying is terrible.
Yes, he was not shot down.
He was tortured.
His bones are broken.
It is still difficult for him to raise his arms.
Not just that guy was shot down.
I wonder if the tone is changing.
Because I think the media secretly love the fact that Trump is in the election campaign, because his copywriting is very good, he sells newspapers, his ratings are very good, and his click-through rate is also very good.
You know, he used to call McCain a fake. -
By the way, McCain said in the first place that Trump had ignited a madman.
You know, we\'re all rolling in.
But now I think McCain\'s comments have made the report particularly negative.
Rosen: Well, I think for Donald Trump, there\'s always some brief comments in U. S. politics when he makes very explicit comments about xenophobia in Mexico
Mileage from this review.
There are very few miles that can be drawn from the war record that belittles John McCain.
But I will say--
As to whether we take him seriously as a presidential candidate, what is most obligated to do so is other Republican candidates, especially those who we think Donald Trump might steal some votes. KURTZ: Right.
Well, President Obama has held a long press conference this week to defend his nuclear deal with Iran, and the most watched is this exchange ---
We will now show you between CBS Correspondent Major and the president. (
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Major garlitte, CBS News: Sir, can you tell the country why you are satisfied with all the publicity of the deal and make the country aware of it, the power of this country has something to do with the four Americans?
President Barack Obama: Major, when I celebrate with American citizens who have suffered in Iranian prisons, I am satisfied that this is nonsense and you should be clearer. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Kurtz: You are a former colleague of major Fox News Garrett.
Many journalists are asking this question. -
Too much wording.
What are you taking?
Rosen: First of all, I have known a major for a long time.
I think he is a good reporter and I think he is my friend.
In this case, I told him that I think the framework of his problem has made too many mistakes on the provocative side.
I also told him, however, that I think it is true that the president gave in to the bait in a sense and that he should not do so.
In the history of the modern president, no one remembers the President of the United States scolding a journalist at such a briefing.
The closest analogy is probably back in 1974, when CBS\'s Dan Rather also asked Richard Nixon a question, booed and cheered, and Nixon said what are you running for, sir.
To be more precise, sir, he said no.
Are you president?
I think the president could have simply said that, major, there are so many objectionable places in the framework of your question that time does not allow us to discuss it here.
Kurtz: Finally, an important question about how we can reach this agreement with Iran, however, four Americans, including The Washington Post reporter, are still being held there.
But when you say you\'re satisfied, you think it\'s provocative?
I mean, it\'s embarrassing that he personalizes the issue.
Ask how you can cut this deal and it\'s very reasonable to celebrate when we have these people.
But, for me, the most interesting part of this story is that you have a reporter asking a politician a tricky question about a Imprisoned journalist and other journalists around the president.
I think there is some potential bias there.
Kurtz: Julie, when major garlitte was asked about CBS\'s communication this morning, let me play his response for you. (
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GARRETT: The president thinks I mean he\'s happy with the American people being imprisoned.
This is not the basis of my problem.
This is not my intention.
Personally, Charlie, I have done some soul surveys to see if I am aggressive enough as a journalist to represent American hostages held overseas. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Kurtz: In answering this question, President Obama may give 1,000 times more attention to this question.
That\'s what he did, but I \'ve never seen Barack Obama so upset.
I don\'t remember when I saw this anger.
So it\'s obviously a very personal issue for him.
I think Major majorte should have taken it back and I think he should have taken the opportunity to say that I have crossed my line.
Because I think he has
I would also like to make it clear that the president did answer the questions raised after the kidnapping of major garlitte.
I mean, no one remembers the part where he answered the question, and they only remember the part where he chased major garlitte.
This could be the president\'s misjudgment.
Kurtz: from the overall report of the Iran agreement, you and your Conservatives have been criticizing the agreement before the agreement is reached, and I want to know that they--
If there is any agreement, they will approve it and the Liberals will defend it, but it should be noted that it depends on the Iranian chiefs and so on.
During the negotiations, you spent two weeks in Vienna covering the John Kerry team.
Do you think the report matches what you see?
Rosen: First of all, I think the Conservative Party might welcome an agreement that would match the terms of the president and his aides two years ago for the removal of the Iranian nuclear device.
This did not happen.
In terms of coverage, I think if you pay close attention to this, you have a very good idea of what is being discussed in the closed-door negotiation room.
Kurtz: American?
Rosen: from American media.
No, I said it from a US source?
Rosen: the reason you have such a good idea about the support of the negotiations at one point or another is because another party
Horizontal parties in Britain, France, Germany, etc. are more talkative than Americans, so they will tell us what happened to journalists, and then we will rush to the US side to keep them silent about us.
Kurtz: Okay.
Let me take a break here and remember to ask a question on Twitter, @ HowardKurtz, or comment.
We will read some later.
When we came back, the New York Times received a testimony in which Bill Cosby acknowledged many allegations of misconduct against him.
This is a blockbuster.
Later, Mike Huckabee explained why he received much less media attention than that Donald guy. (
Business break)(END VIDEO CLIP)
Obama: Give a woman or a man a drug without his or her knowledge, and then have sex with that person without consent, which is rape. (END VIDEO CLIP)
President Obama talks about Bill Cosby.
This morning, we learned from the New York Times that Cosby admitted in his testimony a decade ago that he systematically seduced some young women who believed that drugs were implicated, he paid the woman with a suit to keep her quiet and even let her tell her worried mother that she had achieved sexual satisfaction with him.
Matt Lewis believes the media has provided a very large platform for more than 30 women who accused Cosby of sexual assault and rape years ago.
Does this decision look a lot different now? LEWIS: Yeah.
It seems to be correct to do so afterwards, and the facts seem to confirm this.
Maybe they\'re too late.
The media should be more positive.
Kurtz: It\'s been so many years. . .
Lewis: that\'s understandable.
Because we confused Cliff table with Bill Cosby, a person who has a positive description of black families and heroes in many ways.
Sadly, with what happened to Atticus Finch, where is the hero?
Kurtz: this is a tragedy.
But Julie gave this testimony. -
Now that we have something complete, solve the media debate once and for all?
Is this the conviction of the public opinion court against Bill Cosby?
ROGINSKY: Oh, I think Bill Cosby\'s conviction in public opinion court took place two or three months ago ---
The comedian went out and said--
He told the black guy to pull the pants up, how about you pull the pants up?
All of a sudden, these women began to come out of the wood.
Kurtz: Some people say it\'s too late.
Why should we believe them?
ROGINSKY: You know, 1, 2, 3, 10, 15, no one is related to each other, you know, you are innocent before the court is proven guilty, but not in the public opinion Court.
I think Bill Cosby is the majority. -
Not Whoopi Goldberg, but because of a lot of indirect evidence, most people were convicted long ago.
Not legally, but in fact.
Kurtz: The president\'s answer we \'ve seen is a response to a question raised by radio reporter Ryan at a press conference on April, which is almost mainly ---
Mainly for Iran.
She asked a question outside the topic of canceling President Cosby\'s Medal of Freedom, and what\'s the problem, Barack Obama said we\'re not going to do that. . .
Rosen: Well, she asked the president about criminal justice reform and so on.
But I don\'t think so--
For a person who is holding a press conference, it is entirely OK to say that I will only answer questions about subject x, and for journalists, it is entirely OK ---
Actually I would like to ask y so I have no problem with this.
As far as Bill Cosby is concerned, as far as this testimony is concerned, the question to the press is, how do you ---
What shorthand do you describe him in?
Are you talking about comedian Bill Cosby and comedian Bill Cosby?
You won\'t see the second statement.
But this is a question that editors will be wrestling with us.
Kurtz: I think it\'s hard for a lot of people to accept this fact, because a lot of people, including myself, like Cosby very much, and respect his return to comedy album and-as a ground-breaking race on television--
Now, the Cosby camp finally hanged him without commenting on his own words.
By the way, the reason or part of the reason for asking this question is that the sexual awareness group PAVE launched a petition campaign with its spokesperson, Barbara Bowman, Cosby plaintiff, I had an interview on this project last week and I was happy to have an interview.
I said in error that she gave testimony, but what happened was that the case had been resolved before she could testify.
Julie rokinsky, Matt Lewis and James Rosen are very grateful to join us on Sunday.
After the break, there was a strange quarrel between the anchors about how much NBC paid Donald Trump, and Mike Huckabee soon appeared.
So why did the New York Times post an article at Serena Williams\'s parade saying she was not as big as a woman. (
Business break)
Kurtz: Donald Trump told me in our interview a few weeks ago that he underestimated his net worth.
This week, he filed a disclosure that, to be exact, was worth more than $10 billion, an eye --
The Apprentice for more than 14 years said Trump, NBC, gave him $0. 213 billion.
This sparked a strange and heated debate between two MSNBC hosts Joe Scarborough and Lawrence O\'Donnell, who had producers on NBC\'s West Wing
Here\'s how it goes down. (
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Joe Scarborough from MSNBC: If you look at what he\'s paid from NBC. . .
Lawrence O\'Donnell of MSNBC: It\'s a complete lie.
Let me explain to you that Donald Trump did not even make $1 million in his first year.
Scarborough: You said Donald Trump made $1 million on one of the most successful prime-time shows, and that\'s too much. It\'s hilarious.
O\'Donnell: It\'s a drop show.
There were two good years at the beginning.
It has been falling since then.
Scarborough: Lawrence, you can be aimless and condescending as you like. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Kurtz: that\'s ugly.
You said they were arguing about Iran\'s nuclear weapons, but it\'s not just a TV stick, good morning, Joe took a picture while O\'Donnell was 10 p. m.
This scream may appear on prime-time TV shows, but we don\'t do it here.
O\'Donnell wrote on Twitter: note, good morning, Joe, try to keep all your inaccurate descriptions of what I said to correct your mistakes.
But wait, the story gets even more strange, Trump himself called O\'Donnell on break and offered to bet on O\'Donnell\'s salary for a year, and the number of his apprentices was accurate.
O\'Donnell gave his answer that night. (
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O\'Donnell: So no, Donald won\'t have any bets because I\'ll never bet on anything.
I might be wrong.
I \'ve never said I know exactly how much Donald Trump has made for the entire series. I don\'t know.
Now, I\'m really sorry that I wasted the time that was supposed to focus on what Ryan said on April. (END VIDEO CLIP)
I\'m glad Lawrence calmed down and chose to apologize.
All in all, the media are still talking about Trump, and by the way, Trump called ABC and Fox this morning to talk about John McCain\'s comments, and he did say, yes, mcCain was a war hero, but he did not retract the comments, he did not flinch, he did not flinch.
He declined several questions and an opportunity to apologize.
Well, before the media buzz, former NBC anchor Campbell Brown said there were no two sides to each story, which is why she became an advocate.
But first, former governor Mike Huckabee commented on whether the media considered him a candidate for social issues. (
Business break)
Kurtz: Mike Huckabee is a surprising story of the 2008 campaign, which was basically canceled in the media.
Now, after working on Fox News for a while, the former Arkansas governor has started his second White House campaign.
I sat down with him in Washington. (
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Kurt: Welcome to Mike Huckabee.
Mike Huckabee, 2016 presidential candidate: Thank you, Howard, it\'s a pleasure to be here.
Kurtz: You talk about how you \'ve been working since you were 14 years old, when you run for a campaign, you talk to people in the kitchen and you \'ve done some work yourself, for example, but will the media pit you as a candidate for social issues?
HUCKABEE: Well, I think they might do that.
The people who hear me know it\'s not true, because when I\'m in the campaign it\'s not these issues that I\'m focusing on.
I don\'t feel like I have to prove my bonafides on the following-
Maybe the divine of life-
Because people know I\'m clear, bold and consistent.
So I spent most of my time talking about the issue of bringing a real sense of economic empowerment to those who have just been defeated by a system that makes it very difficult to climb a ladder through the middle class.
Kurtz: but we think same-sex marriage is a prominent exception because after the Supreme Court ruling you said I would not acquiesce in the court and you said we have to reject the tyranny of justice
I know you said you would have a government branch, but it seems to some that you will not accept the high court ruling.
HUCKABEE: Well, I think what we all should do is to accept the constitutional form of government, which has three branches that are equal and the courts cannot make laws.
Congress must make a law.
The president must sign.
It must be carried out by the president.
The court can explain a law that they can declare that something is not constitutional, but they have no power to write the constitution.
Kurtz: So you don\'t think all the states are obligated right now. -
Legal obligation to follow the Supreme Court ruling and issue a marriage certificate to the same personsex.
HUCKABEE: Well, it depends on whether their legislature can do that.
In many states, you do not have the statutory power to write the language into the state to carry out these things.
Before someone in the other two branches decides that this is actually the correct interpretation of the Constitution, if you leave the judicial branch with full authority, let them decide something, in which case, it\'s a very political ruling, not a real legal ruling, and it\'s from the point of view of the brutal four drops in their assessment of this, then what you have is judicial-first practice.
Kurtz: In 2008, I wrote this at the time, and until the Iowa caucus, you barely got the mainstream media attention, and of course, you won.
You don\'t seem to get that much attention this time.
Of course the pitch will be more crowded, but do you see a pattern?
HUCKABEE: Well, I think there is a certain media narrative.
The media think this guy is--
For voters, these reasons do not necessarily make sense, nor do they necessarily make sense to candidates.
But you see, it\'s like this.
I can complain.
But the best thing to do is go out and win because it\'s hard to get ignored when you start to win.
Kurtz: The other thing you do is go out and do a lot of interviews, and Hillary Clinton has done a national TV interview so far compared to Hillary Clinton.
Do you think it is important for candidates to sit down at such meetings?
You know, Howard, I think if someone-
No one should be president if they are not willing to answer questions, not just news questions.
I think you have to go out and take unfiltered questions from unemployed truck drivers, housewives and people hit by Obamacare, or maybe people who lost their welder jobs.
These are the real people you ask to give you the highest position in this land.
I think this scammer asked the pre-to a group of carefully selected people-
Select questions that should be rejected.
I think the best thing is that the media should say that we don\'t report any pretentious candidates who will think they can play for their own campaign like a Hollywood sitcom. KURTZ: Anti-
If we get together and decide this, it\'s against trust.
It\'s not just a free media description of you.
You will be criticized.
The National Review says you are running a vanity campaign and don\'t like the fact that you are talking too much about protecting rights programs, about poverty and what sounds like a liberal.
I don\'t think Huckabee is serious when someone says a vanity sport, I think he does it because he wants to get a TV show and he wants a book deal, he wants to help his speech.
I wonder if you guys are crazy?
I have a TV show and I have a book deal and I\'m doing all the presentations that I might put into the calendar.
In order to run for president, I gave up the incredible health income, because I really believe that the country needs experienced leadership, not just the blind parties, I will do what the party wants me to do, but the leader says let the high tide float all American ships.
This is my background as governor of Arkansas.
I believe this is the kind of leadership America needs right now.
Kurtz: you have a show on Fox.
I know your profile compared to your first run.
But do you personally like journalists?
Do you think they are fair to you?
Huckabee: everything they have.
Look, take 100 and I can find a dozen that might not be fair. That\'s life.
Some voters don\'t like me either.
My God, Howard, there are people in my own family who don\'t like me any day.
Kurtz: as long as we are honest.
This is part of the process.
I keep saying, if you can\'t stand to see your own blood, then don\'t run for office for God\'s sake.
This is a cruel experience, not to make your heart dull.
Kurtz: in every recent interview, people ask you how is Donald Trump?
You said he doesn\'t need more publicity, but given the extent to which Trump is now dominant in campaign debate and media debate, maybe it\'s up to us, don\'t you need to enter the rhetoric stage with him?
No, I absolutely don\'t know.
He has a campaign.
I have a campaign.
It\'s like swimming in the Olympic Games.
Everyone has a lane.
If you want to win the Olympics, you \'d better swim in your own lane.
You enter other people\'s lanes and both of you are disqualified.
The last thing I need to do is worry about what Donald Trump, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Rick Santorum or anyone else is saying because to be honest, it doesn\'t affect what I have to say, it doesn\'t affect my message, I don\'t change my message because what others are saying is either different from me, either it\'s something they stole from me, and by the way, there are a few lines out there too.
Political plagiarism. I\'m shocked.
Let me go back to one of your favorite songs and one time you said to Beyonce that she was too sexually suggestive, Jay-
Z is a pimple who uses his wife as a sexual object.
When you were asked about it, you said my book was only half a page.
If you put it in, you will know that it will attract the attention of many people.
Huckabee: Actually, I don\'t.
To be honest, there are a few things in that book that I think will be controversial, and I \'ve listed eight or nine things that I think will explode and be controversial.
Surprisingly, these are not controversial views.
Simply mentioning Beyonce, I never thought it was a media storm.
Kurtz: You have been governor for 10, 1/2 years.
At that time, the overwhelming Democratic legislature, however these days the media are so focused on the current hot spots, the latest remarks, you have responded to this, can you respond to this? But I want to know what you did in Arkansas and what you think you did and you can even go through static.
Huckabee: in a way, it will, because people will eventually hire someone to serve as president.
I think when you hire someone, the first thing that gets your attention, if you want, can be something more outrageous, something sexy.
But when you really have to say OK, we have to make a decision, who do we hire?
Do you really want to know that this person is qualified for the job?
Has this person done such a job before?
Is this person capable of leadership?
Kurtz: Did you miss the TV show? HUCKABEE: I do.
This is one of the best experiences of my life.
I will tell you how I told others and I said I am a very hard-working candidate for a position.
I am working and managing a challenging state that is working very hard.
And then, for the last 1/2 years, I \'ve been talking about people running for office and holding office, and to be honest, this is the simplest job I \'ve ever done, it\'s more cost-effective than anything I \'ve done in my life. I loved it. I miss it.
I will stay if what I do is comfortable and profitable.
But I really think our country is in trouble.
I have five grandchildren now.
I don\'t want to be one of those who live a comfortable life for themselves at the expense of my grandson.
Kurtz: Mike Huckabee thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you, Howard. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Television, the simplest job he has ever done.
After the break, Campbell Brown had presidential candidates like Jeb Bush lined up to talk about education reform as she jumped from a television anchor to an advocate, and later, the New York Times was hit by asking people about the shape of a tennis player\'s body. (
Business break)
Kurtz: Campbell Brown seemed tired of TV when he resigned 15 years later
A year of career at NBC and CNN.
She has just launched a new website called 74 million to drive education reform. org. But is it news?
I talked to her in New York before. (
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Welcome, Campbell Brown.
Former network anchor Campbell Brown: Hey, it\'s great to be here.
It\'s good to see you.
I hope I came in person. KURTZ: Me too.
Let\'s start with your decision five years ago to leave the CNN prime time show and you said you can\'t compete with Bill O\'Reilly and Keith Altman on ratings, is that frustrating for you?
Brown: of course.
Life is an evolution.
I think my career in TV is definitely the same.
I like to be a reporter very much.
When I became an anchor, I struggled, and of course, when I was doing a show on CNN, it was almost impossible how the ratings were driven and how not to get into it.
I remember my staff watching the ratings when they came out at 4: 00 every day, and according to that number they were either low morale or very excited.
It\'s frustrating that this number is sometimes almost impossible not to push editorial decisions.
This makes the people who work in the news lose their happiness.
Kurtz: do you thank cable news for creating a very polarized environment?
Brown: Well, I think it\'s good to push you to do something that\'s not really worth doing, or more generally.
We will eventually cover up more celebrity scandals or crimes because it will become popular.
It makes the ratings rise.
The shouting game always excites you.
So, people push us to a more confrontation-style interview, and you don\'t have a chance to think so carefully.
Kurtz: if that\'s the case, let me yell at you and let me yell at you for the next question.
You spent most of your career at NBC, you\'re the number one substitute for NBC evening news, do you think the entire Brian Williams mess has tarnished the web?
Brown: Look, I \'ve been working there for 11 years, so I have a lot of friends. So it\'s heartbreaking for me to talk to them because the things they go through are too hard.
But, no, there are great journalists in the long run.
Lester Holt and my colleagues took over the evening news.
He has long been an outstanding journalist and a dear friend and amazing person.
So I think that having him in this role will calm things down and it can be said that it will stabilize the ship.
They can\'t make better choices.
So I think people are moving on.
Kurtz: Now that you have joined the education reform, you have started this website, do you feel free from the shackles of news? BROWN: Yes.
Kurtz: how do you feel, Campbell?
Brown: It feels great.
I think there should be more people to try.
I \'ve been debating with a lot of people about this new role that I \'ve played, because before launching 74, I did more work on advocacy on education issues.
I have been asked a lot of questions. Are you a lawyer or a reporter now?
I find myself from the old school news background that Tim Lastel hired me and directed by Tom brokau, and our mindset is that each story has two sides, the role of the reporter may play the role of the referee, and now, I feel like a journalist, we have lost the trust of many viewers over the years.
They also don\'t believe that we can be truly objective.
I don\'t believe, frankly, that this is really possible.
We all come to each story with our own life experience, which brings some kind of prejudice to all of us, maybe when you get into a story, it would be better to be honest with your bias, your position and your point of view, and if we are, I think, in any case, for those viewers who do not buy objective lines, this may be a great help to restore our credibility.
Kurtz: Well, I mean a story on your website where you hire journalists and no one knows how Hillary Clinton will manage education.
In any case, the American Teachers\' Federation supports her and you have a conflict with the teachers\' union.
But you also wrote what you learned. -
You said I know not every story has two sides.
Is this really true or is it more of an advocate\'s point of view? BROWN: No.
Let me give you an example.
This is a story for me to be educated and I was very interested in this issue from the beginning.
This is a story read in the Daily News about 14 teachers who have been convicted of sexual misconduct with children who keep their jobs.
Who can say this is a good thing?
This is the problem, because a New York law on books protects teachers and prevents them from being taken away from the classroom.
It\'s crazy in my opinion, and it\'s impossible for anyone to argue that it\'s okay.
However, when I write something about this or talk about it, the country has a special interest group with a lot of power and they are crazy.
Sometimes, in journalism, we delay, and when we see a situation like this, we are afraid to take a stand, and I think the wrong equivalent does hurt our credibility, when we face an obvious moral problem, we should talk about it openly, especially when it involves children.
Kurtz: Well, you\'re definitely going to say it now, a lot of people think journalists should be more open to their prejudices, and now you have the opportunity to push your cause.
Thank you so much for joining Campbell Brown.
Brown: It\'s great to be here.
Nice to meet you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Campbell Brown.
Next, does the New York Times have a problem with Serena Williams and other female tennis stars because they don\'t look female enough? (
Business break)
Kurtz: The day before Serena Williams won the Wimbledon Open, the New York Times reported on her bicep and mold.
Compared to Maria Sharapova, who is a little thin, she breaks the muscle frame and suggests that \"the perceived ideal female body size seems to be inconsistent with the best physique for tennis success.
\"This is the work of Tamara Holder, a Fox News writer and host of the Fox online show sports venue. (
Start Video Editing)
Welcome, Tamara Holder.
Tamara Holder, Fox News writer: Howie, thank you for inviting me.
Kurtz: I said it was my first serve, and should the New York Times post this to question whether a muscular tennis player like Serena is inconsistent with a woman\'s physical image?
Look, this is freedom of speech.
The New York Times can post whatever they want, but it\'s kind of ridiculous because--
I don\'t know, I think we were in the 2015 s where women had the right to have muscular arms as they please, or to lose weight as they please. It\'s pretty --
I don\'t know, it\'s just the tragedy of this newspaper read by millions of people, it targets Serena and her buff arm as if it\'s such a bad thing. KURTZ: Right.
One of my favorite things is interviewing Serena Williams and the other players, Serena says she\'s happy with her body right now, and another player Andrea Petkovic says she doesn\'t like arms
She said that because I didn\'t feel feminine, I enlarged my photos.
So I think there is some contradiction between some professional female athletes on this issue.
Holder: Well, it looks like people don\'t like Kim Kardashian\'s bulging ass, but she sells millions of books and she\'s one of the most photographed and admired beauties on the planet
Kurtz: she\'s on the cover of The Rolling Stone.
Right, right.
At the end of the day-
I believe in her big breasts, full breasts, if you like.
So the bulging body part of a woman is actually a very good thing. I checked it last time. men really like it.
I don\'t think there is any problem.
You know these European tennis players make these comments like Agnieszka Radwanska said she wants to be a little thinner and she wants to look like a woman.
Well, that\'s great, but you\'re not number one in the world, so I don\'t know, maybe you should hit some iron.
Kurtz: Yes, I understand it\'s good to say that, but these athletes should want to win the championship, not professional models, right?
Holder: Yes, a lot of it is that on the one hand you have genetics, on the other hand you also have a training style and what works for you.
There are a lot of people who are very slim, you know, so are Serena ---
Compared to Michelle Obama\'s arms, Michelle Obama is not an athlete and is known for his beautiful arms.
Kurtz: Let me talk in the short time we left.
It\'s not shy to post your own photos on instagram in a sports bra or bikini.
Do you think the media are too concerned about the issue of how much skin a female athlete, celebrity or journalist is showing?
Holder: I don\'t know if it\'s the media, or people, right wing, who are so upset about how a woman is doing.
Sexual sales at the end of the day.
Different people have different body styles, you know, I think women are beautiful.
We should embrace our curve. the more curves we have, the better.
Tamara Holder embraced her curve.
Thank you very much for taking pictures with us today.
Bracket: Thank you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Kurtz: Your top tweets are still behind.
I understand why the media are now bashing Donald Trump and Gao Ke for something very rare, adding a sexual story after a strong protest. (
Business break)
Kurtz: Gawker, the gossip site facing the storm of criticism, first deleted a major news report that had nothing to do with legal or factual reasons.
Gawker has reported that a media executive I would not like to be named, a brother of a former Obama administration official, has agreed to pay a gay porn star 2,500 before withdrawing.
Founder Nick Denton said that, in my opinion, the significance of the story is not enough to offset the embarrassment of the subject and his family, which is a frank admission and also for pointless obscenity
Well, your top Twitter time is up, is major garlitte or President Obama happy with the US hostage staying in Iran on this issue?
Obama\'s mother, major garlitte, went too far, trying to provoke insults and disrespect to make herself the main character of the story.
Gary R. , this is a fair question.
This happens when you have a president who is not used to being challenged by the media. David B.
Cohen: There\'s no crossing.
Garlitte is right to raise the issue, and POTUS has the right to be angry.
Finally, the art of insults has been serving Donald Trump, a product of New York\'s tabloid culture.
If he chooses Rossi O\'Donnell or Jerry Seinfeld, Donald will make the headlines and everyone will get the game.
But now that he\'s a candidate for president, Trump is often his own worst enemy.
It is one thing to say that Rick Perry should buy a new pair of glasses, and the other thing is to expose John McCain\'s captivity, who has been tortured as a Vietnamese prisoner of war.
Now the media have been embarrassingly dismissive of Trump because he is at the top of the polls, but this misstep gives ammunition to those pundits who think Trump is a non-missile, someone who never apologizes
At least today, journalists are really attacking Trump and poking their eyes doesn\'t solve Donald\'s problem.
This is the version of \"MediaBuzz \".
This is Howard Kurtz.
Thanks for watching.
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